In one of yesterday's posts, I said "since this is a Zwiegart linen and not a hand dyed linen, it's a bit thinner". A friend, who is fairly new to stitching asked about that. Most dyers start with Zwiegart linen and that's what they dye so it does stand to reason that all 40 count linens should be the same; all 36 count linen should be the same . . but it isn't. I Googled "Why does hand dyed linen seem thicker than Zwiegart?" If you want to know way more than what I'm going to say here, that's a great place to start.
Another thing I want to emphasize - Zwiegart linen is great. I never mind using it. Even though I said it seems thinner, it definitely doesn't seem flimsy. I might not carry black thread across the back of white linen . . no matter what linen it is but I know for sure I wouldn't on Zwiegart.
Another thing is that even during the pandemic when it was almost impossible to get linen, Zwiegart was easier to get.
One more thing . . Zwiegart is usually less expensive. I checked prices at Colorado Cross Stitcher and a fat quarter of Zwiegart linen is $25 where as some of the hand dyed linens are $38. A whole yard of Zwiegart is $96 vs. a yard of hand dyed being $150. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why hand dyed linens are more expensive and I appreciate the opportunity to use hand dyed linens.
One thing I did know, and found while searching - The dyeing is integrated into the manufacturing process, before the fabric is loomed, for better control over the final product.
There are several reasons hand dyed linens feel thicker but one is that the fibers absorb the dyes and plump up. Sometimes a bit of heat is used in the process, which can cause the linen to shrink a bit. Except for Picture This Plus linen, I've never found the hand dyed linens to be so much different that I have to make changes. With Picture This Plus, which I love, instead of 40 count linen, I use 36 count linen.
Do I think a piece stitched on 40 count Zwiegart vs. 40 count hand dyed will be different in size? No, but IF there is a difference, it's so tiny, it would never be noticeable. Both are going to have 40 threads per inch. IF the threads swell up, there are still 40 threads and the wholes between them are going to be smaller. If I use 36 count Picture This Plus where I would normally use 40 count linen, the 36 count piece will be a tiny bit larger.
What really matters to me is this: If I stitch a piece on Zwiegart Cream (which is what I'm using for Seeking Refuge), and I compare it to the same design stitched on Zwiegart linen, I likely will not notice any difference except the color. Once it's up on my wall, I won't even notice which ones were stitched on hand dyed or which ones were stitched on Zwiegart.
The bottom line for me is this: Buy what you want to use! I started stitching when all linen was hard to find and I bought what I could get. I will use most anything. I'm not picky.
When it comes to linen, I have a decent stash and it's very mixed - mostly 40 count; some 36 count, very little 32 count. There's some Zwiegart and some hand dyed. There's nothing I won't use.
There is a little shop about 40, maybe a few more, miles from here. I either have to go there, mail order and hope it's the color I think it will be, or have a stash here so I can find the perfect linen and start a project at any time.
When I do start a new project, I will first pull all the called for floss. If I don't have the called for floss, I will use my DMC book. It's a bit expensive but it's something I use ALL the time! Most every chart will have a DMC conversion. Once I find the called for DMC color, I match it to something close. The called for may be Weeks Dyeworks, but once I find the DMC match, I'll take it to my floss closet and dig through all the flosses I have and find a close match and that's what I will sub for the color I don't have.
Once I get all the floss pulled, I'll take it to the linen bins and choose several colors that look like they may work. Then I'll spread all the floss over one color of linen, then another until I find what seems to me to be the best match. Sometimes, as with my Seeking Refuge project, it's easier to change one color of floss than to keep changing the linen.
In the end, all that matters is that each stitcher is happy with their choice of linen and floss.
Thank you for this follow up. I guess my confusion is with Zweigart vs hand dyed linen. If a hand dyer uses a Zweigart base, like Fiber on a Whim, then are you saying that that linen is now thicker than un-dyed Zweigart? Sorry to be such a dunce.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if "thicker" is the right word. Maybe more dense? I think the threads may absorb dye or something during the dying process and make the threads thicker/more dense, there by making the holes smaller and I'm not able to see through the linen as much, i.e., having threads show throw from the back if carrying them across a couple of stitches. I feel like I'm not saying this right but I did make another post with a photo or two that may help.
DeleteI think I got it. THere's undyed Zweigart, which feels thinner, than dyed Zweigart.
DeleteNo. I've never seen undyed Zwiegart. That's what the dyers use. I'm talking about linen in the shops that's just "Zwiegart" linen that they've dyed. There's that, then there's all the linens done by the dyers who use the Zwiegart base - Picture This Plus, Fox & Rabbit, Seraphim, etc.
DeleteGenerally, the shops will have Zwiegart linen (which is the colors they've dyed) and numerous linens dyed by all the dyers who have used the undyed, Zwiegart base.